The Difference Between Tax-Deferred and Tax-Free

| February 07, 2020
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Announcer:
Welcome to the prosperity gap where we discuss the financial gap that exists between where we are and where we should be. It’s time to bridge that gap.

Dave:
Hey, prosperity nation. Welcome to the show. My name’s Dave Hall and I’m the prosperity guy. I’ll be your host today. Very excited to have you with us as we talk today about new topics to help you bridge that prosperity gap that you have between the life you’re currently living and the one you should. If you haven’t taken the opportunity yet to subscribe to our show, please do so. We release every Friday. You’ll have the opportunity to listen to our new shows, get information about what’s coming out next, so please subscribe and join us with the prosperity gap podcast today. I’m super excited about today’s show. Once in a while I get an opportunity to not only bring on great professionals but also to bring in friends of mine and today I’ve got one of those with me today and it’s David McKnight. He’s the author of the top selling book, the Power of Zero. He’s also written a book called Look before you learn and the Volatility Shield. He’s a published author. He’s also just recently produced an amazing video called the tax train is coming. David, welcome to the show.

David:
Thanks Dave for having me. Glad to be here.

Dave:
Yeah, glad to have you. This is very interesting show for me because we’re talking about something that I know you’ve talked about for years, but many times our listeners haven’t really paid attention to maybe in their own life or their advisors aren’t talking to them and that’s the power of zero. When we talk about that, Dave, what what does that to you? What is the power of zero?

David:
Well, the power of zero actually refers to the 0% tax bracket. Now, truth be told, there’s no such thing as a 0% tax bracket. We know that the tax rates started 10, 12, 22, 24, 32, 35 and 37 but 0% simply refers to a situation in retirement where you are not paying any taxes at all. And we think that’s a really big deal because we’ve studied the fiscal trajectory of our country and we’ve sort of gotten the lay of the land and we feel very, very strongly that given the unfunded obligations that our country has for social security, Medicare, Medicaid, then national debt, the interest on the national debt, the tax rates even in the next 10 years will have to rise dramatically just to keep our country solid. And this is a big problem for the vast majority of Americans who have the lion’s share of their retirement and 401ks and IRAs because they have yet to pay the tax on those investments. And we feel like the 0% tax bracket is a big deal because some experts out there have suggested the tax rates have to double to keep our country solvent. And I’m, I’ve always loved saying this, that if you’re in the 0% tax bracket and tax rates double two times zero is still zero. So that’s the 0%. Uh, that’s the zero, uh, refers to the 0% tax bracket. And I think it’s something that more and more Americans are taking a look at.

Dave:
David, how did you get started down this path? At what point in your life did you say [inaudible] planning may not be the right answer for the majority of people out there?

David:
I think it was probably back in 2009. I mean, I was always very, very into tax free. I think that in retirement, uh, you’d have less money to go around. You’re less inclined to want to earmark money towards taxes. But I think I really started to become attuned to the fiscal problems facing our nation. In 2009 when I got to know a guy named David Walker, David Walker had served as the comptroller general of the federal government for 10 years. He did that under Bush and Clinton. The reason I respect them so much is because he did a very, very interesting thing. He basically stood before Congress in 2008 and said, Hey look, we’re like the Titanic heading towards an iceberg and these are all of the different things that you can do to shift course and not hit the ice where you can either spend less money or you can bring in more revenue or some combination of the two.

And of course, Congress failed that he had either of those recommendations. And so David Walker actually resigned from his position as controller general, the federal government, and started at criss cross the country raising the warning cry on college campuses on radio. He appeared on 60 minutes. If you’re watching 60 minutes at all during 2009 you saw David Walker a couple of different times. And then 2010 he wrote a book called comeback America where he diagnosed the problem. So David Walker is one of those guys, you know, he knows more about the fiscal trajectory of our country than anyone else on the planet. And David Walker really turned me on to the idea of the tax rates in the future would have to be higher. He said the tax rates would have to double to keep our country solid. So that occurred to me, if we are as Americans, we have $22 trillion in our cumulative IRAs and 401ks all of what your tax deferred. We only have eight or $900 billion in our cumulative Roth IRAs and tax rates in the future are likely to be higher than they are today. Then we gotta be doing something differently. And so that really has inspired me to bring this power of zero message to America. And so far I think we’re making some headway. We haven’t quite reached critical mass yet, but I think we’re making headway.

Dave:
Well, you’re talking about David Walker and obviously very reliable source. He was in a position and had the knowledge to be able to promote and push this. Are there other people that have gotten behind you since then to help push this message besides just you and him?

David:
Uh, yeah. There’s a guy out of, Boston university. His name is dr Larry Kotlikoff. He is a foremost expert on what we call fiscal gap accounting and fiscal gap accounting is basically saying, Hey, look, let’s project out what we’ve promised as a federal government in the form of social security, Medicare, Medicaid, and interest on the national debt. Let’s project that out over the next 70 years. And then let’s figure out what we can actually afford to pay under current tax rates. And then let’s take the present of that future obligation. In other words, what is the difference between what we promised and what we could actually afford to pay? Let’s figure out how much money we would have to have sitting in a bank account today, earning treasury rates to be able to deliver on all those promises. And he says, whatever that number is, is your true national debt.

Okay, so he says the true national debt is not 22 trillion. It’s not 120 trillion like some experts have put for it. It’s actually closer to 239 trillion. And our national debt is not growing by $1 trillion per year, which is what the federal government tells us is that the national debt is actually growing by $6 trillion three years. So if you, just to put that into perspective, Dave, Congress tells the world that our debt to GDP ratio is about 105% which would not be horrible relative to where we were post world war II. But if you consider it all of our unfunded obligations, our debt to GDP ratio is actually closer to 1000% and they give you an idea how bad that is. Our second place country in the world is Japan. Their debt to GDP ratio is 250% and that’s doing the accounting the right way. So we are telling people that are dead is one thing when our actual debt is entirely something else. And so Larry Colacap has been at the cutting edge of that type of counting and he talks about it quite a bit in our movie as well.

Dave:
Is there a desire to change that accounting? I mean, is there a group of people that’s trying to get together to change that so America can really get the true picture of what’s going on out there?

David:
Larry Kotlikoff does have a website and I’m not thinking of what it is right off the top of my head, Dave, maybe you’d know it, but there’s certainly every Nobel Laureate in our country and economics has suggested that this is the way that we should be running our accounting. Every other developed country in the world does their accounting this way, and we are the only country that does not do our account in this way. And I think it’s pretty obvious why. It’s because we as politicians, we don’t want the truth to get out because if the truth gets out about how fiscally irresponsible our politicians have been, they may, they may or may not get reelected and their number one job as you and I both know Dave, is to get reelected. So,

Dave:
okay, so let me be the devil’s advocate for a minute there. There’s other options I would propose. Number one would be we have the opportunity printing more money. Hey, why should we raise taxes? Let’s just print more money. Uh, number two, let’s cut spending. What’s your answer or thoughts to those?

David:
Yeah, so let’s tackle the first one first, which is, let’s print our way out of it. Part of the issue is that the two biggest problems in the budget are social security and Medicare, both of which are tied to inflation. So we all know that when you print money, money’s valuable because it’s scarce. When you print more of it, it becomes less scarce, therefore less valuable. That’s why we get inflation. So if you try to inflate your way out of it, what happens is that the costs of social security, the costs, I mean these are things that are paid for in time, which means that as the costs go up, as inflation goes up, the cost of these programs likewise go up. Therefore, as inflation increases, the cost of these programs would increase commensurately because they’re all tied to inflation. So it doesn’t really solve your problem and it just, just the values, the dollar.

And so you’re just sort of, you’re running in place as it were. So that doesn’t really, that doesn’t really fix it. And as far as cutting spending, you could set spend and we absolutely need to cut spending. The problem is the people who rely upon these two programs the most are the ones that can least afford for the government to cut spending. So we have key demographics in our country that rely on Medicare and social security. And to cut spending would be mean to say let’s target the poorest among us and tell them that they can no longer have the level of benefits that they have come to expect in retirement. So that’s of course what we call the third rail in politics. If you go to your local Metro station and you touch the third rail, it’s the one that has the sign that says do not touch high voltage. Well, that’s what happens when you touch the third rail of politics and in government as you get zapped right out of office. So there’s not a lot of Goodwill in Congress to take that approach. So we were really stuck in a situation where we probably have to raise taxes dramatically and then reduce spending some combination of the two. It’s just up to the federal government to see if they have the sort of the intestinal fortitude to take that approach.

Dave:
Question back to you, so you started this, you said 2009 that obviously is before Trump got in and we got the tax cuts that we currently have, something that you expected. Where do you think tax rates fall now compared to the future? How long do we have? I know there’s a bundle of questions in there, but what do you see for the future going forward here?

David:
That’s a great question. So we know that the tax cut and job act of 2017 lowered taxes for everybody. Now they may say that it lowered it, especially for the wealthy, while the wealthy pay about 98% the top 20% pay about 98% of the taxes in the country anyway. So if there’s going to be a an across the board tax cut that’s going to disproportionately benefit the wealthy. That’s just sort of the reality of it. So, and lower taxes for everybody and in an inaugurated as period of what I call the tax sale of a lifetime, which is this period of historically low tax rates now, because they could not get a majority of Congress to sign off on this, they had to get this tax of approved through what we call budget reconciliation, which means that it has a, an expiration date. It has a sunset provision, which means that January 1st, 2026 these tax rates are going to go right back to what they were in 2017 now, it just so happens that all of the media outlets are telling us that Medicare is sort of going bust in 2026 as well.

So we have a situation 2026 where you have almost this perfect storm where tax rates are going to revert to what they were in 2017 we’re also going to Medicare going and solvent, which is a really, really big deal because it’s the most expensive part of a budget and that’s happening all at once. So I think that if there were a day of reckoning for our country, it’s probably 2026 and to keep the country solvent, we’re probably going to have to raise taxes rather dramatically. At that point, we interviewed a guy named Tom McClintock in our movies, a Republican Congressman out of California. He’s on the Republican budget committee, he says eight years from now, and he said this last year, so he was right on, he said 2026 we’re going to be Venezuela. So we have very, very smart people in very important positions that have nothing to gain by not giving you the unvarnished truth that are telling us that 2026 is a really, really big year for our country.

Dave:
They’ve, let’s talk about the movie a little bit. Obviously a book’s pretty self explanatory. It’s good to talk about how you can get to the zero tax bracket, but let’s talk about the movie and why did you go to the length that you went to? I’ve had a chance to watch it. It’s an amazing documentary. Why did you go to the lengths that you went to this message out in video format?

David:
You know, occasionally we’ll have people that either read the book or see me speak that are still a little bit skeptical as to my assertion that tax rates in the future are likely to be dramatically higher than they are today. And we wanted to be in a position where we have aggregated so many expert testimonies in one spot that it was no longer a matter of argument that the tax rates in the future had to be higher than they are today. And so we set out, we barnstormed across the country, a filmmaker, Doug orchard and I, we barnstormed across the country. We interviewed people in the government, outside the government, government think tanks in universities inside our industry, outsider industry. We really wanted to get this really eclectic group of financial experts that come from all sorts of different walks of life. All of them have real expertise in this area and see what they had to say.

And what we found Dave, was that they’re all looking at the same numbers and they’re all singing the same song. They’re all saying, look, we are in a really tough situation. We are marching into a future where tax rates are going to have to rise dramatically. We will have to cut spending certainly, but almost almost certainly tax rates in the next 10 years will have to rise dramatically or we go broke as a country. The only person that I’ve really been able to find that that, that doesn’t agree with that assessment is Ken Fisher of Fisher investments and he’s got a hold of a whole other different fish to fry at this point in time, but he appeared in the USA today, a couple of weeks ago telling us that that that was not a problem. Of course, this is the same guy who in 2007 right before the great recession said that the stock market was going to go up in perpetuity. So he has all sorts of things to gain by saying that the stock market or the national, that’s not a problem, but everybody else who has any degree of expertise at all disagrees rather vehemently with him. So most, most experts seem to believe there’s a consensus around tax rates needing to go up to keep our country solvent. And I think that’s what the movie, the intention of the movie was to show precisely that.

Dave:
I think it did a very good job of it. That was one of the things, I loved the documentary. Again, very impressed with quality, the number of people that are coming out because for myself, we haven’t been friends for a lot of years. We’ve just recently, maybe within the last year, we got to know each other. This was a new concept for me as a CPA. I’ve been taught my whole life that to do traditional planning and then all of a sudden as I read your first book, I thought, wait a second, I think this guy has got something here. I didn’t know what the solution was, but I’m thinking, Hey, this guy’s got something. And as I start going through it, I think one of the biggest things that hit me is what if you’re wrong? I mean, even if you’re wrong, and I’m still in a much better position, at least I have clarity when I hit retirement of how much money I have. If I, if you’re right and I haven’t prepared myself. Now if taxes go up to 50 60% I have no idea where I’m going to be at financially.

David:
Right? I mean we do have to look at the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario is that David Walker is no good at math. You and I are no good at math. Tax rates can stay historically low for the rest of our lives and still be able to deliver on all these promises in the federal government. So even if all of that math was wrong and irresponsible this much, we know you are still going to be in a great position. Retirement. If we can put you in a situation where your social security, for example, is tax free, where you don’t have to worry about budgeting dollars for taxes, you’re still gonna be in a great position in retirement if you can be tax free. There’s all sorts of ancillary benefits that will accrue to you if you’re tax free. And of course, if what we are saying is true in the tax rates do have to double to keep our country solvent, then obviously we made the right move to get you to the 0% tax bracket.

Dave:
And there’s definitely more information out there showing that this could happen than not. It was very interesting for me. I read the trustee report from Medicare talking about their financial situation and I thought it very interesting that on the first page, one of their biggest complaints were the tax cuts. They said, this is why we’re going broke. They cut taxes, we don’t have the money we need. Well, what does that tell me? That you don’t want them cut. You’re willing to raise them to get the money that you need to be able to solve your problem.

David:
Yeah, not only that day, but I think that people need to use that, you know, both the movie and the trustee report is a lens through which to interpret a lot of the promises that are being made by presidential candidates on both sides of the aisle. You know, president Trump said that he was not going to touch social security or Medicare. That was a campaign promise. We’ve got Elizabeth Warren on the other side of the aisle is trying to figure out how she can deliver on her promise to give Medicare to all without having to dramatically raise taxes on the middle class. And if you watch the movie, one theme comes out over and over and over again, which is this, you cannot make all of these promises and pile them on top of what we have already promised because we can’t afford to deliver on the promises we’ve already made, let alone to double them over time. And so I think that once people understand the math behind the fiscal trajectory of our country, they’ll recognize that not only can not afford to deliver all of these new programs and these new benefits, but we’re having a hard time paying for the ones that we’ve already promised. And that should inform a lot of the debate.

Dave:
It’s been very interesting as CPAs. In fact, we often recommend S corporations for people because it allows you to save self employment tax. And I’ve told people over and over and over again take that savings, invested yourself into your retirement account. You’re going to be far better off that. It’s a much safer system than what the government’s providing. So as we get to this point, Dave, let’s talk about maybe some strategies. I realize everyone’s situation’s going to be different. There’s no way we’re going to answer everyone’s question. We’ve talked about the reality, the taxes definitely could double. What are some things people can start doing now to help prepare themselves for this future situation?

David:
Well, first of all, I think that one of the big roadblocks that people face is that they are determined to not pay tax before the IRS absolutely requires it of them. So first step is to sort of banish that notion from your whole retirement approach because you have to recognize that you may not like paying taxes. I gave you permission to not enjoy paying taxes, but in the big scheme of things, tax rates right now are on sale. They’re historically low. 10 years from now we’ll look back and say that was the tax sale of a lifetime. It was a good deal of historic proportions. Why did I not take advantage of tax rates while they were historically low? So I think the first step is to recognize that it’s not the end of the world to preemptively pay a tax to the IRS. How do you prove you preemptively pay a tax to the IRS?

Well, you put after tax dollars into, for example, a Roth IRA versus a traditional IRA. You put it into your Roth 401k as opposed to a traditional 401k. You do rock conversions, which is paying the tax on those dollars at today’s historically low tax rates before the IRS requires that of you somewhere down the road. So certainly you and I’ve talked about the LIRP is chapter five in my book, the power of zero, the LIRP, the life insurance retirement plan. This is a great way to grow money in a tax free way without the traditional limitations of the Roth IRA. Plus you get a death benefit that also doubles as longterm care somewhere down the road. So, you know, most people should have five or six different streams of tax free income, none of which show up on the IRS radar, but all of which contribute to them being in the 0% tax bracket by the time tax rates go up for good. And the great news, Dave, is that we’ve got seven years, you know, the cost of admission to get to get into the 0% tax records. You gotta be willing to pay that tax. We’ve got seven years to enjoy historically low tax rates before tax rates go up to for good. So this, this should be, you know, these seven years should be, should be a window of opportunity during which to take advantage of these low tax rates to get those tax free retirement accounts, chockfull of our retirement saving dollars.

Dave:
Great advice. And I think it’s very important that Prosperity nation, you understand that you don’t want to wait until the end of that seven years and hell, we like to procrastinate. Many times it’s easy to say, well, it’s seven years away. I’ll continue doing what I’m doing today. They really need to take action now. Would you agree with that?

David:
Yeah, there’s no question about it. You have to, you know, we call it a window of opportunity, but really what it is is it’s a series of seven little, many windows of opportunity. Let’s say day for example. You’ve got $1 million that you want to shift from tax deferred to tax free. Well, if you have seven years, you can break that up into little bite sized manageable shifts, right? And every time you preemptively pay tax on a rock conversion, for example, that money’s going to go into your tax cylinder. And be and be taxed as ordinary income on top of all your other income. The problem is as your window draws shorter, in order to get all the heavy lifting done before tax rates go up, you’re going to have to rise more dramatically in that tax cylinder. So instead of maybe only shifting 100,000 per year or 150,000 per year, maybe you’re having to shift over four years, 250 or 300,000 well that’s going to cause you to rise dramatically in that tax cylinder.

A lot of those dollars are going to be taxed at your highest marginal tax bracket. Throw us some state tax on top of it. You could be getting to the point where you’re paying 50% on those dollars just because you didn’t manage the shifting schedule very well. So what I tell people is you want to shift the money slowly enough that you don’t rise too dramatically in your tax cylinder such that you get heartburn, but you do it quickly enough such that you get all the heavy lifting done before tax rates go up for good. So there really is a mathematically ideal amount to be shifting during each of the number of years that you have that are standing between you and your, your ideal date by what you want to get all your shifting done.

Dave:
I’ve always said that one of my most important jobs is income averaging. Now it’s not legal to do it on a sense of saying, Hey, we’re just going to take your income and average it over 10 years, but there’s still a lot I can do as a CPA to help people income average, especially if they’re a business owner by taking certain deductions this year, moving deductions to the next year. I mean it definitely is not the right answer for anyone. It’s same as in the stock market to have a very low tax year, a very high tax. You’re very low tax year and all of that’s going to result in a lot more tax than to just level it out and make sure you’re paying a minimal amount as you go along each and every year.

David:
And if they’re doing their, their accounting on a cash basis as opposed as opposed to an accrual basis and you can shift some income around as well so that you’re not realizing all the income necessarily, uh, all in one year.

Dave:
Dave, let’s talk about one more thing. And that’s provisional income. I know many CPAs don’t even understand what this is. I know most retirees definitely don’t understand what they’re getting into. What is provisional income and why or should people be concerned about it when they hit retirement age?

David:
Yeah, so provisional income is the income, the IRS tracks to determine if they’re going to tax your social security. So a lot of people don’t realize that their social security can be taxed. They say, Hey, it felt like a tax when it came out of my check to begin with and now they’re going to tax me again. That feels like a double tax. Well that’s what it is. It’s a double tax. You did pay tax on it, you know you paid FICA tax at the very beginning and then when they give you the money back at the end, they’re going to tax it again. That’s exactly what’s going on. Provisional income basically says that if you’re a single person and have provisional income that’s greater than 25,000 then up to 50% of your social security can become taxable to you at your highest marginal tax bracket.

If you’re a single person, you have provisional income that exceeds 34,000 and then up to 85% of your social security benefit can become taxable to you. And then if you’re married that that number is 30 2040 4,000 so what counts is provisional income. Well, any, any 10 99 is coming out of your taxable bucket as provisional income. Any distributions from 401ks or IRAs count as provisional income, any interest coming off your municipal bonds counselor’s provisional income, one half of your social security council’s provisional income. Basically take your adjusted gross income that counts as provisional income and then add to that your one half of your social security payments. And if you’re exceeding those thresholds, then you’re going to lose a chunk of your social security. We’ve seen lots of instances where people are losing, you know, by $1,000 per year out of their social security.

And let me give you a sense for why that’s a big deal, Dave. If tax rates went up to 50% like David Walker sort of predicted back in the day, that means to be able to fill that hole on your social security, you’re going to have to come up with money from somewhere else. And what most people do, we found as they simply take it out of their IRA or Hare 401k, so they’d have to take out 10,000 bucks, pay the 50% back to the IRS, and then be left over with $5,000 with which they can then plug the hole in their social security. This is a really big deal because what we found is that if you have to give up $5,000 of your social security, it forces you to spend down all your other assets that much faster. So people are running out of money five to seven years faster just because of this little phrase called provisional income that the IRS doesn’t really like to advertise.

Dave:
I remember I got exposed to this years ago when I was young CPA. I had a client come in and he told me that he had transferred a bunch of money to his mom because she was retired and he was going to save taxes. Now, unfortunately, it didn’t come to me in advance, allow me to calculate it. He was in the 40% bracket. He thought, my mom’s definitely gotta be lower than that. Well, they transferred this money over and because of this provisional income, she actually ended up having to pay 55% tax. She ended up paying way up, saving them money, and ended up costing him substantially. I couldn’t understand it. So I explained the whole process and it definitely is an issue and especially where there’s, it was just transferring money. They had the money, it wasn’t a big issue, but if you’re in retirement and you only have a certain amount of money there, I know it’s one of America’s biggest concerns. I think 66% of America is currently afraid they’re going to run out of money before they die and now you take situation and say, Hey, it’s not going to last near as long as you thought it was. That percentage could go up substantially higher.

David:
Yeah, it’s going to blindside, I’m convinced data. It’s going to blindside a lot of people in retirement who did not, when they did all of their financial projections, they didn’t account for the fact that they would have that five to $7,000 bill for social security taxation. And you take a little tiny change and that retirement plan and you amortize it out over 40 or 45 years or even 35 years, and there’s this massive quantum difference on the back end. And that’s, that’s what we’re seeing over and over and over again. When we do the math on these retirement projections as a, you literally run out of money five to seven years faster when you end up paying tax on social security. So provisional income is a very, very important thing to be attuned to when you’re making plans for retirement.

Dave:
It’s very hard to CPA now when we’re even in the lowest tax bracket we’ve ever seen, retirees are always complaining to me about the tax they pay. They think it’s too high. And to think that in the future it could be that much higher. It’s somewhat scary, but again, not so if you prepare yourself, you take these next seven years and you prepare yourself, you have an opportunity prosperity nation to fix the problem and it’s not too late. I think that’s the other thing. You need to understand that it definitely isn’t too late no matter how you’ve done your planning, you have time to correct it. Would you agree with that?

David:
Yeah, and I, there’s, there’s no question about that. I think that we get involved, you know, we have such a short memory, Dave, we get lulled into this idea that tax rates have always been low and we don’t even realize that in our lifetime we have experienced tax rates that were double what they are today. So we talked about, Hey, they would never double tax rates. Well we don’t remember back in the 70s the tax rates were roughly twice. Yeah, we had a few more deductions back then, but people were paying much more tax back then. And if you look all across the world at effective tax rates that are people, people are paying all across the world, it’s dramatically higher than what we’re playing in here in the United States. So some people say this now that high tax rates could never come to the United States. Well guess what? We’ve had them before. We’ll go there again. What goes down must always come up. We’ll start joining the ranks of the all the other countries in the world and have potentially 50% effective tax rates. So it’s just a question of time before this hits hits home. So we’ve had a really, really keen to take advantage of tax rates while they’re historically loved because once they go away they’re never coming back.

Dave:
100% agree with you on that. Dave, this has been a great show. We’ve shared great information for the listeners. Obviously you have the ability to share a bunch more through your books and your podcast and your documentary. Why don’t you let the listeners know how they can get ahold of you and gain far more information on this topic than we’ve been able to cover in today’s show.

David:
Sure. There’s a couple of different places you can go. If you are a Financial advisor and you want to learn more about what we do, go to powerofzero.com if you are not a financial advisor and just want to learn more about how to get to the 0% tax bracket and go to Davidmcknight.com you can get all of our books on Amazon. The name of our podcast is the power of zero show.com and of course you can watch the movie the power of zero. The tax trade has come in pretty much anywhere where you stream movies these days. You can, you can watch it at your leisure.

Dave:
Thank you very, much, Dave, for being on the show today.

David:
Well, thanks so much for having me, Dave.

Dave:
Prosperity nation. You have been listening to the prosperity gap where we help you bridge the gap between the life that you are currently living in, the one you should be. If you’ve not yet subscribed to the show, please go on, subscribe. You’ll be able to get access to the show on a weekly basis so you can continue to learn about these great topics and we share with you, my name’s Dave hall, I’ve been your host and we will see you next week.

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